If there is no flexibility or willingness to adjust our collective perceptions of what it takes to be valued in this field, and how people are treated when they are not meeting some kind of universally applied standard, then things can only improve so much.
Elena Chambers
I’ve been glad to observe that the performing arts industry has taken steps forward in improving accessibility for its audience members in the last 5-10 years. Witnessing more accessible offerings by performance venues, such as sensory-friendly or relaxed performances, audio description headphones, and sign language interpreters, has filled me with hope.
Yet, while there have been accessibility improvements for audience members, there is still much to be done to support performing artists. Accessibility challenges for performing artists have often been overlooked or stigmatized. However, there is great potential for positive change, and I believe an opportunity exists before the performing artist even takes the main stage: in educational spaces.
In the second half of my interview with Elena Chambers, disability activist (click here to read Part 1), we focused on the accessibility challenges that artists face in performing arts spaces, and how performing arts schools could increase accessibility and support for their students.
Reflecting on your academic journey thus far, what has been your personal experience with accessibility and support for your learning disability in your different school programs? Did performing arts schools differ in any way in terms of accessibility?
Hannah: As for your personal experience with accessibility and support for your learning disability in your different school programs, I wonder what the difference has been between SMTD and the School of Social Work? Especially coming from the assumption that the space produces the disability, not the person.
Elena: Yeah, I mean the School of Social Work and SMTD were, are, definitely different. I would say they each have their challenges. The School of Social Work does well in a lot of areas, but they are by no means perfect.
In terms of SMTD, I think one of the limitations is that not everything we need as students with disabilities is a single action that can be listed on a piece of paper. We need larger-scale, structural change to degree programs that may make it possible for students with disabilities to even be there in the first place. If there is no flexibility or willingness to adjust our collective perceptions of what it takes to be valued in this field, and how people are treated when they are not meeting some kind of universally applied standard, then things can only improve so much.
In my experience at SMTD, many professors were very reluctant to accept accommodations, even when they were written down. You turned in the paper, and they often didn’t want to follow it. I think that maybe they would have if I had been a little more pushy about it, but I was an extremely anxious 18-year-old with low self-esteem. I wasn’t really the type of person who was going to go and be like, no, you have to do this. So, when they gave me any kind of pushback, I would just be like, OK, it’s fine.
So, a good starting place would be to make sure accommodation papers are being accepted and followed.
Hannah: Definitely. Especially too when professors are teaching at a school where students come from all walks of life and levels of comfortability in advocating for themselves. Someone fresh out of high school might feel differently about advocating for themselves than when they are in their 20s. Plus, many students coming straight from high school may have been used to more parental involvement up to that point. Now, they may be in a setting where they are far from home and don’t have someone to advocate for them.
If professors don’t help advocate for their students, starting with accepting and implementing accommodations, it doesn’t create an environment that is accessible and inclusive. It makes for a more narrow definition of what type of person is allowed to succeed in performing arts school.
Elena: Right.
Do you think accommodation pushback makes students more fearful about their future in the performing arts industry?
The music world has a long way to go in recognizing the value of every musician and not just the ones who can make the fewest mistakes or memorize the most music.
Hannah: I’m wondering for students who struggle to receive accommodations at performing arts school, do you think that makes them more fearful about their future in the performing arts world? That they might face similar pushback when they go out into the industry.
Elena: Oh, absolutely. It is one of the biggest reasons why I left, quite honestly. I did not think I was going to be able to make a space for myself as someone with a disability who might need something that is outside of what is viewed as appropriate to ask for. That was my experience just with trying to get professors to do the things they were supposed to do on paper.
But even, beyond that, it is not just about what is on the paper. Intelligence and skill don’t exist on this singular kind of linear continuum, the way that some people think it does. The music world has a long way to go in recognizing the value of every musician and not just the ones who can make the fewest mistakes or memorize the most music.
Hannah: I would also expect that some aspects of music school and the music industry are hard to provide accommodations for. Schools aren’t structured enough to adapt to each student’s unique learning style and pace. Some students might get left behind without larger structural change.
It would be great if things like class requirements could be based more on each student’s pace. For instance, for one student, their reasonable challenge could be to learn a piece in 3-days, but for another student, a more reasonable challenge would be a week. Being equitable, not just equal, in teaching approaches.
Elena: Right. Equity is so much better! I love the idea of universal design (a teaching approach that works to accommodate the needs and abilities of all learners).
One of the things that SMTD does very well though is their electives requirement. The electives are completely open to explore content outside of the music school. SMTD has a great approach in requiring students to explore some subjects outside of the music school, and not predetermining what those need to be. I think that approach could exist a little more in the music school curriculum too, in terms of what are your career goals and what else do you need to learn to meet them.
What advice would you offer to performing arts educators and future educators seeking to create more accessible, inclusive, and supportive learning environments for students with disabilities?
Hannah: We have talked about some overall changes to the structure of schools beyond syllabi that would help increase inclusivity and accessibility. But I am wondering if you have some more specific advice for educators who have to work in an environment that won’t have those structural changes? What would you recommend to educators who must follow their school’s rules and expectations but want to provide more supportive learning environments?
Elena: That is such a great question. I know this is something that some professors struggle with because they want to help but are mandated to require certain things of the students. I have never been in that position, but I imagine one of the most important things a professor can do is to be patient and open to hearing the experiences of people with disabilities. And, if certain things about the program’s structure can’t be changed, professors can still approach a student with a disability with compassion and understanding.
There are limits, but there are things that they can do within the confines of the structure, like having a project-based class instead of a test-based class. Or, having different options for assignments, so students can pick what works best for them but still must demonstrate their learning.
And then, on a larger school-wide level, I would love to see mandated training, led by disabled people about disability, for faculty, staff, lecturers, and GSIs- anyone who teaches and interacts with students. Training that includes not just practical, immediate actions, but also looks at things from a social lens to try to get that collective mindset shift happening within music institutions.
Hannah: I would also love to see more mandatory diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) training for students, on topics like how to be an accessible performing arts educator or how to support DEI work as a performing arts leader. Or for students to be more encouraged to take classes outside of performance that will help them have careers where they make the performing arts industry better.
Elena: Definitely. And I would encourage any student who is in music school right now to explore their interests outside of music. I think it is just as important to develop other interests as it is to get better at your instrument. It is important to be well-rounded.
Hannah: Yeah. I have seen this ingrained grind culture among performing arts students where they feel they need to constantly practice and perform, rather than take care of themselves or develop other interests and skills. When I was at SMTD, I saw students try to fill their elective requirements with whatever classes they thought would be the easiest, rather than finding classes that could help them grow and gain a wider perspective.
Elena: Right. And I think just being exposed to people who aren’t training to be professional musicians is really important.
In the music school, I don’t think students encounter a whole lot of people who might learn differently than them just because of the nature of SMTD. They might be interacting with people who have a disability without realizing it because they have assumptions about what type of person can be at music school. If students make assumptions that everyone at music school must conform to their one definition of what it means to be smart and have achievements, they may be overlooking some of their colleagues.
Hannah: Yeah. The concept of hidden disabilities comes to mind. I have a chronic migraine disorder, but because it is “invisible,” it can be difficult to convince my professors that it exists if I need accommodations. If you look able-bodied when you might not be, I think that creates another barrier to trying to get accommodations or compassion.
Elena: I think it is in everyone’s best interest to try to eliminate the assumptions as much as possible. Don’t just assume anything about someone and where they are in terms of ability.
Hannah: And be open to talk and ask each other about it.
Elena: Exactly. I can’t speak for all people with disabilities, but I know for myself, I would have welcomed any questions. I think some of these professors would get my accommodation papers and they would just be so confused because it was so outside of the realm of whatever they were expecting to see in the classroom. It would have been so much better if instead of not providing these accommodations, they would have asked, “What does this look like for you? What do you need in the classroom? What is hard for you? What does this disability affect?” I think that would have been so much better.
Hannah: I think more professors should be encouraging open conversations. They can’t fully support their students or create a supportive environment if they don’t talk to their students. You can’t predict what someone’s needs are going to be.
If professors talked to their students, rather than just assuming they can’t provide accommodations, they might already know of some solutions or be able to innovate something. Without a conversation, they won’t know.
Elena: Yeah. One of the strangest responses I sometimes got when I would turn in those accommodation forms was, “I already accommodate all students in my class, just in the inherent structure of the class. It is already accommodating.” And I feel that if you’re saying your class is already accommodating in all of the ways it needs to be accommodating, then it is not accommodating.
Hannah: Wow, that is crazy to me. Especially because there are infinite identity intersections. It is impossible to cover every intersecting identity with just one structure. I also think every syllabus, program, initiative, etc., needs to be constantly reviewed. You can’t just build an “accommodating” program. You need to constantly review its effectiveness and see how you can improve it. Ask yourself, is this truly working?
Elena: Right. It’s all about assessing the needs of the people who are there. There’s no one-size-fits-all approach.
Hannah: Yes, absolutely.
Can you tell me a little bit about your blog, Dyscalculia Community?
Hannah: So, moving away from our conversation about performing arts school, I just wanted to spend some of our remaining time together to ask a bit more about your blog, Dyscalculia Community, and your disability activism work. How did your blog come about?
Elena: My blog was kind of a product of the pandemic. I had been writing about my experiences of living with a disability, but I had never planned to share anything that I wrote.
But, I got to a point of feeling so isolated and alone, having this disability that many people hadn’t heard of. I had spent so much time in undergrad trying to hide the fact that my brain was different and that I struggled with things that other people didn’t. And I realized, this wasn’t making anything better.
When the lockdown happened, I just thought oh, I won’t be seeing many people for a while. So, if they judge me for what I write about having a learning disability, then I probably won’t have to deal with it for a long time.
I wanted to create an online space that would hopefully help other people with dyscalculia to feel less alone. And, provide information about dyscalculia for people who don’t have it and who might not have heard of it before.
And I think it was just a way for me to let others know what it’s like to have dyscalculia and, you know, hopefully, play a small role in raising general awareness that people might be struggling with skills or things that other people take for granted. At the time of the blog’s creation, I was having a lot of trouble learning to drive. I eventually got my license a little over a year ago, but when I started the blog, I was often questioned by so many people about why I didn’t have a license and when I was going to learn to drive. I had begun to dread hearing the questions and it was exhausting to try to explain my learning disability just over and over to every person. So, I think there was part of me that thought the blog could serve as a general statement for anyone who wanted to read it. Not for just the people I knew personally, but for anyone who might know someone with a learning disability who has questions.
Hannah: That is great. Do you think the blog became a good outlet for your mental health challenges? Like, did the blog ever act as a way to journal your experiences and find validation?
Elena: Yes. It was so important to healing my mental health. I think it gave me a sense of purpose and helped me feel like this disability isn’t something that makes me less than other people. One of the things that was a driving force or sort of motivator in addressing my mental health problems and committing to recovering was a sense of having a bigger mission.
If there is one piece of advice you would give your past self, what would it be?
Hannah: Thank you so much for sharing about that journey. I have one last question for you today: if there is one piece of advice you would give your past self, whether that’s your 11-year-old self or 18-year-old self, what would that be?
Elena: This is similar to what I said before, but I think it would just be to advocate for yourself. Stand up for what you need. Even when interacting with someone who is an authority figure, you can still respectfully stand up for yourself. At the end of the day, it’s your education and it is OK to express what you need in an educational environment.
Hannah: That is great, thank you for sharing that.
If there are any lessons you take away from this interview, let them be these:
For students—I encourage you to openly discuss your access challenges and not be afraid to advocate!
For faculty—I urge you to listen attentively to your students! Listening to, acknowledging, and communicating the needs of students is the first step toward providing better support.
Lastly, I want to extend my biggest thanks to Elena for being so open to sharing her experiences and thoughts with the Performing Well community. I hope her words resonated with you as much as they resonated with me!
Elena is an eloquent writer, blogger, podcast co-host, and social media content creator!
Please check out Elena’s work, linked below!
Blog: dyscalculiacommunity.wordpress.com
Podcast: lilacdancepodcast.podbean.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elenachambers.advocacy/
Additional Resources:
https://www.arts.gov/impact/accessibility/careers-in-the-arts-toolkit
https://weareunlimited.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Demystifying-Access-IPDF-Final-2.pdf
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